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paranormal dimensions is a regular

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feature on mondays on the paranormal UK

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radio network

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[Music]

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hello well this is Malcolm Robinson and

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you're listening to the paranormal UK

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radio and network the UK's biggest

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paranormal Network and this is

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paranormal dimensions with David Young

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hello and welcome to the show thank you

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for our intro welcome right I've got

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some calls out today ones for Nigel

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Wright in Lancaster Lancashire UK second

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one is for sherry Ann McGraw Charleston

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West Virginia USA and Jay Matthews

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Manchester UK yes the three for today

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right now my guest today is a man named

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Tom Whitmore and he's actually been a

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longtime

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new form board member Thomas has been in

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San Antonio Texas residence in 1984 he's

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originally from Tulsa Tom graduated with

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a degree in business administration from

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Portland State University and has a

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career in the financial industry since

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the nineteen seventies he has been

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employed as a financial analyst with the

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local firm in San Antonio in holds the

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Chartered Financial Analysts designation

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from the CFA Institute he is an

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accomplished guitarist and Heather

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daughter who's the kindergarten teacher

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tom was invited to join the ruphylin

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Board in 1994 and has experienced the

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organization's progress through the

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successive administration's of what

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Andres George SLUSA a fetus's James

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carry on Clifford Clift Dave McDonald

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Jan Haslam he serves as treasurer and

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focuses on long-term and strategic

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issues for the organization tom has been

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fascinated by military and intelligence

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agencies have seen intelligence agencies

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inspections and with the UFO public

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he'll be in undertaking research study

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of the history of the mj-12 affair and

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intends to eventually publish his

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findings he looks forward to

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participating in discussions on

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Kjetil topic which has some disposable

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no we dealt with a couple of weeks ago

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after the sad loss of Stenson Friedman

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he'll be giving the local presentations

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to local UFO groups and in being a guest

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on internet talk shows and podcasts such

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as this one well don't think I'll just

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introduce Tom now and hello Tom you

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there

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yes David thank you for having me I

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appreciate some been looking forward to

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talking to you indeed so once again I'll

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tell you Ani I apologize for the delay

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as you know we did lose Stanton Friedman

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a couple of weeks ago and no sense we'll

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do a couple of kind of tribute shows if

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you'd if you will call them there is

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this your first uk-based show yes it is

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that site

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welcome to the UK I mean I hope this

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will be the first of many but so the UK

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shows - actually no this this this

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network goes out across the u.s. anyway

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so it's not as if it's just you okay

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based you know I've been in the process

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of retiring from my regular employment

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so I'm gonna have time to travel and I

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want to get over to the UK one of these

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days not too long from now good I hope

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you do I mean if you come down to the

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you've heard of the Rendlesham forest

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incident from 980 well yes I live fairly

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near in difficult forest and I know

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quite a bit about it so if you ever come

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down to this way then maybe we can meet

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up well actually I had I had a

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conversation with Colonel old friend

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appoint a few weeks ago when I was at

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the I was at the Edinburgh UFO Festival

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and he was there so that was interesting

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I don't know if you know but I'm

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planning a conference for Colonel Holt

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in September

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he's coming over again and you'll be

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staying here and everything and it'll be

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over for about week so if you could make

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it in September but be great that's

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probably bashing it a bit

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well unfortunately I can't be everywhere

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at once anyway

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top this though get into where would you

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like to start you'll tell us about your

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mutant connections and well I

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normally ask this question how did I get

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in the UFOs but I was I'm 66 years old

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and I was born in 1953 so I grew up as a

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cold war baby a cold warrior a person

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I'm constantly hearing about the

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possibilities of a nuclear war and the

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space program and as you know during

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that era there were movies like The Day

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the Earth Stood Still and we had the

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Twilight Zone and I was reading Tom

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Swift books growing up and UFOs were

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very much in the mainstream media in the

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50s and 60s so I grew up with that and I

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wasn't actively involved I had read

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several books by Donald Kehoe you know

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flying saucers serious business type of

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thing and in my younger years but in the

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in the 1980s after reading history books

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facts of history books for many years I

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got interested in the subject of

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espionage and counterintelligence and

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psychological warfare mmm and in the in

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the late very late 80s early 90s I ran

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across the UFO magazine on the street

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and I bought it and read it and then I

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started looking into the fields more and

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I got involved in MUFON and I at that

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time the mj-12 controversy was raging in

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the early nineties and in looking at

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that I realized that there had been a

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merger between counterintelligence and

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psychological warfare in the u.s. so

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this is what really truly intrigues me

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meanwhile I had gotten involved in MUFON

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I had bought the field investigators

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manual studied pass

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build investigators exam became a field

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investigator investigated some cases I

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became a state section director and

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after a while now they fund with at that

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time was headquartered in Seguin Texas

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which is just a few miles from San

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Antonio and it was being run by Walt

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Andrus and Walt Andrus courteously he

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gave me the opportunity to come on the

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board of MUFON in the 1994 era in fact

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it was during the time of the the

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symposium MUFON symposium in Austin

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Texas and I've been on the board ever

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since the mj-12 documents arrived via

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the image of the roswell incident what

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is your feelings on that do you feel

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further for any MUFON investigations

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that there actually was an alien craft

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that correct I think there is a distinct

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possibility and I think that many

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historians will tell us David that

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history is is really a matter of

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probabilities and I think that we can

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ask ourselves how probable is that that

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a craft crashed and there were there

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were bodies and this was all anomalous

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and I would say that the probability is

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pretty high I've read you know much of

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the Roswell literature and kept up with

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Roswell controversy the latest thing

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I've read is Roswell in the 21st century

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by Kevin Randle and Kevin Randall's a

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very conservative UFO investigator has

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wonderful investigative skills he tracks

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down people and gets to the gifts as

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close as he can to the heart of the

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information and in reading Rosslyn a

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21st century which I think is the latest

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on the subject there's enough there to

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convince me now maybe someone who's more

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skeptical they may have more trouble

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with it but after all the years the

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stories and the testimonies the room

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the leaks from a number of different

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sources not just from the Roswell area

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but for military bases from retired

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military people etc etc there's enough

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to convince me that it's highly probable

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that something like that has happened

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hmm well we help out the the cut of call

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so story do you go along with that or

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because he worked in the Pentagon didn't

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the after that after his time in the Air

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Force and you've got to give his story

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some credence for that just for that

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issue alone yeah he had I think that a

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kernel course though a

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lieutenant-colonel course though I

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believe had a pretty solid career in the

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army and in the government hmm he claims

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that he worked for it's a general

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Trudeau and that he had come across some

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Roswell material that he claims he

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passed on to private industry I think

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that much of it considering the

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possibilities of the Roswell effects I

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think that much of it is is is is

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believable now I don't know if it's true

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or not I have heard that the really

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juicy information is his own diary his

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own papers which I haven't seen as far

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as I know have not been published it

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would be nice if we could see that now

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the the the roswell book that came out

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you know with his name i think was your

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you know toward commercial appeal and

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it's possible there are some things in

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there that are either not relevant or

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not true or have been saturated but i

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think there's you know again there's a

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distinct possibility that some of his

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Hecht activities have been related to

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Roswell yeah I think he may have well

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been fit some daddy information that

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week ended up in the book itself but I

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think you've gotta say I think you've

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got give him some credence for the fact

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that he was working in the Pentagon

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unless it was all the misinformation

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disinformation the tech theater

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well there's always that possibility

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yeah but the fact that things like

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glazes and fiber optics and ICS and all

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sorts of chips and transistors and

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things that so came out of that there

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was this thing to appear quite around

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that so at the same time didn't they and

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there's no real hard I can't find any

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hard connections between lasers actually

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first started materializing they think

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they come out of nowhere yeah you know

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and I'm not I'm not an authority on the

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history of technology in the 20th

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century but it's simply amazing in terms

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of the micro processors that the kind of

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progress that's been made and the number

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of processors that can be imprinted onto

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a chip is is just absolutely amazing

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it's phenomenal yeah I mean I actually

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got my board working career was in the

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electronics industry and when I first

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felt if we had normal valves and things

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you know president mean you'd like the

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late sixties and right up until the when

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I was leaving I mean you couldn't see

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the things on a pinhead

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you know the amazing transformation that

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went through while I was working in the

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industry was well you know it's

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fascinating and amazing you know yeah

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who knows I mean sometimes all you have

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to do is get an idea across some of

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these people and they can run with it

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yeah so your actual thoughts on the

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mj-12 documents you think they're all

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genuine or do you think there's some

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fake ones thrown in there to sort of

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muddy the waters a bit because that's my

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thought so I think the you know the

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discredit that's been fake ones thrown

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in there yeah well I my area of interest

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David is is what I call the history of

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the mj-12 affair and there's on drawing

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a distinction in I'm looking at the

273
00:14:34,150 --> 00:14:31,819
history of the actual activities that

274
00:14:38,650 --> 00:14:34,160
were involved in the development of the

275
00:14:39,390 --> 00:14:38,660
mj-12 affair and that being the people

276
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:39,400
that were in

277
00:14:46,530 --> 00:14:43,090
and the events that occurred and the

278
00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:46,540
things the ideas and the claims that

279
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:49,360
were made and I believe this has been

280
00:14:55,290 --> 00:14:52,090
going on since the early 80s to do the

281
00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:55,300
print day and you know we can outline

282
00:14:59,790 --> 00:14:57,850
the history of the mj-12 affair with

283
00:15:04,170 --> 00:14:59,800
with the appearance of the original

284
00:15:07,519 --> 00:15:04,180
mj-12 documents in the 1980s connected

285
00:15:09,690 --> 00:15:07,529
with Bill Moore and Jamie Shandra and

286
00:15:11,090 --> 00:15:09,700
your gentleman from England there I

287
00:15:13,260 --> 00:15:11,100
can't remember her saying right now

288
00:15:16,740 --> 00:15:13,270
above top secret

289
00:15:19,650 --> 00:15:16,750
Timothy good oh yeah the release of

290
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:19,660
those documents of 1980s and then we had

291
00:15:24,750 --> 00:15:21,760
now there are several things that I'm

292
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:24,760
including in in the mj-12 affair those

293
00:15:32,910 --> 00:15:28,480
things being for example the appearance

294
00:15:35,820 --> 00:15:32,920
of Bob Lazar and then in the 90s we had

295
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:35,830
the documents that are associated with

296
00:15:42,990 --> 00:15:39,370
Timothy Cooper and this is a much higher

297
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:43,000
volume of material of pages that have

298
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:45,450
been related to Timothy Cooper's

299
00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:48,970
activities and in the 90s we had of

300
00:15:55,730 --> 00:15:52,510
course the alien autopsy film and and

301
00:15:58,560 --> 00:15:55,740
also in the 90s and the 2000s we had

302
00:16:02,760 --> 00:15:58,570
these claims from this person by the

303
00:16:05,610 --> 00:16:02,770
name of dan burisch and then in the

304
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:05,620
2000s we had the serpo affair the surco

305
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:08,890
material that has come out and then up

306
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:11,170
to the present and more dan burisch

307
00:16:16,700 --> 00:16:13,600
material and up to the present time

308
00:16:19,740 --> 00:16:16,710
we've had this ultra top-secret mj-12

309
00:16:21,690 --> 00:16:19,750
document appear on the internet and then

310
00:16:24,260 --> 00:16:21,700
almost within the last few weeks we've

311
00:16:27,570 --> 00:16:24,270
had this document

312
00:16:33,210 --> 00:16:27,580
allegedly associated with with Eric

313
00:16:35,490 --> 00:16:33,220
Davis on the Admiral Wilson document and

314
00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:35,500
also with KITT green on the alien

315
00:16:41,460 --> 00:16:39,279
autopsy issue so in my opinion the mj-12

316
00:16:45,390 --> 00:16:41,470
affair has occurred almost up to this

317
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:45,400
month yeah I've got to say about the

318
00:16:50,670 --> 00:16:47,290
alien autopsy we know actually no the

319
00:16:51,950 --> 00:16:50,680
man who did the the ID'd autopsy spiros

320
00:16:54,050 --> 00:16:51,960
Belarus

321
00:16:55,790 --> 00:16:54,060
and all this thing about the alien

322
00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:55,800
autopsy being genuine there are people

323
00:17:00,560 --> 00:16:57,450
out there still think he's genuine he's

324
00:17:03,470 --> 00:17:00,570
really I know for a fact it's really a

325
00:17:05,540 --> 00:17:03,480
fake film you know it's what I don't

326
00:17:07,490 --> 00:17:05,550
what - all paid what paperwork whatever

327
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:07,500
paperwork has come out whether there's

328
00:17:12,530 --> 00:17:09,810
another real alien autopsy is another

329
00:17:14,510 --> 00:17:12,540
matter but the one that was actually out

330
00:17:21,230 --> 00:17:14,520
there that was on film was actually a

331
00:17:23,540 --> 00:17:21,240
fake one yeah and at the moment David I

332
00:17:28,580 --> 00:17:23,550
think in terms of the alien autopsy film

333
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:28,590
we have mass confusion because there has

334
00:17:33,770 --> 00:17:31,890
been this document that has come out

335
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:33,780
that has been leaked on the Internet

336
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:37,410
that was between Eric Davis and doctor

337
00:17:44,060 --> 00:17:41,010
kit green and dr. kik green in in these

338
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:44,070
series the emails it was communicated

339
00:17:50,930 --> 00:17:46,290
dr. Greene has said that he had been

340
00:17:54,290 --> 00:17:50,940
briefed on on these alien dissections so

341
00:17:58,130 --> 00:17:54,300
this this this started this whole ball

342
00:18:00,440 --> 00:17:58,140
rolling a few weeks ago with reexamining

343
00:18:02,450 --> 00:18:00,450
the alien on top no no I'm not sitting

344
00:18:04,490 --> 00:18:02,460
here claiming that the film that we've

345
00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:04,500
all seen you know that was marketed is

346
00:18:10,430 --> 00:18:07,110
genuine I'm not claiming that at all i

347
00:18:13,010 --> 00:18:10,440
what my question is what about the

348
00:18:16,580 --> 00:18:13,020
original film that sound tilt that's in

349
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:16,590
mr. Santilli claimed that an had or has

350
00:18:21,470 --> 00:18:19,440
does that story well is it this

351
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:21,480
possession this is this is the question

352
00:18:25,010 --> 00:18:23,490
I'd like to have it yes I've got my

353
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:25,020
opinion on that know what I'm theories

354
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:31,290
one from what I get from what I gather

355
00:18:37,550 --> 00:18:33,930
spirits with auras his faith that he is

356
00:18:39,260 --> 00:18:37,560
inviting centuries to produce it and he

357
00:18:43,370 --> 00:18:39,270
does he says he never will because he

358
00:18:46,010 --> 00:18:43,380
hasn't got one well and you know if you

359
00:18:48,290 --> 00:18:46,020
think about it David if you had

360
00:18:52,820 --> 00:18:48,300
something like that in the press if I

361
00:18:55,820 --> 00:18:52,830
was doing that for one thing I would if

362
00:18:58,760 --> 00:18:55,830
i if i did a reconstruction of the event

363
00:19:01,270 --> 00:18:58,770
you know a reenactment I mark I would

364
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:01,280
identify this such to begin with

365
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:03,690
secondly I would state that there is

366
00:19:06,690 --> 00:19:04,690
original

367
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:06,700
and I would hold that in some kind of

368
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:09,370
custody or escrow so that it could be

369
00:19:14,100 --> 00:19:12,490
verified okay and those are logical

370
00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:14,110
things that that you would think would

371
00:19:19,670 --> 00:19:18,510
be done under circumstances about yeah

372
00:19:22,590 --> 00:19:19,680
really

373
00:19:26,220 --> 00:19:22,600
whisperers produce that film he did it

374
00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:26,230
was kind of a joke in fact and he didn't

375
00:19:31,020 --> 00:19:28,240
it got out of hand he didn't actually

376
00:19:32,460 --> 00:19:31,030
realized that some Santilli was actually

377
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:32,470
spreading all around the border making a

378
00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:33,850
lot of money out of it he actually

379
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:35,440
realized himself so when he when

380
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:36,970
somebody told him it was actually on the

381
00:19:41,730 --> 00:19:39,730
television or somebody he went what yeah

382
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:41,740
as if you know it was supposed to be

383
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:44,170
just a joke that got out of hand

384
00:19:53,970 --> 00:19:49,450
in actual fact well I've done open mind

385
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:53,980
and I requested a copy of Phillip

386
00:19:59,160 --> 00:19:57,010
mammals book and he very curiously sent

387
00:20:00,930 --> 00:19:59,170
it to me at no charge yeah I haven't had

388
00:20:02,610 --> 00:20:00,940
a chance to read it yet but I know that

389
00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:02,620
he spent years researching that

390
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:06,910
absolutely my intention David is to look

391
00:20:11,460 --> 00:20:09,130
at the history of this whole affair you

392
00:20:13,860 --> 00:20:11,470
know from the 80s to the present hmm and

393
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:13,870
try to get as much factual information

394
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:16,510
as I can and let the chips fall where

395
00:20:21,210 --> 00:20:16,930
they may

396
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:21,220
sure no you you asked me what is my

397
00:20:27,300 --> 00:20:24,970
opinion of the mj-12 original mj-12

398
00:20:29,820 --> 00:20:27,310
documents and I you know there are

399
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:29,830
several theories I think that we can

400
00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:32,530
associate that with that one is an out

401
00:20:39,260 --> 00:20:35,710
mount hoax either by Bill Moore and

402
00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:39,270
company or by other some unknown party

403
00:20:46,380 --> 00:20:44,710
another possibility is that there and if

404
00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:46,390
this is becoming increasingly apparent

405
00:20:51,900 --> 00:20:48,910
in in recent discussions but the

406
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:51,910
apparent there are factions within the

407
00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:54,010
department of defense

408
00:21:00,840 --> 00:20:57,970
there's the faction and apparently that

409
00:21:02,730 --> 00:21:00,850
is in favor of greater disclosure of

410
00:21:04,910 --> 00:21:02,740
information into the public and there's

411
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:04,920
a faction that that is against

412
00:21:12,540 --> 00:21:08,650
disclosure yeah it's it's one thing one

413
00:21:15,330 --> 00:21:12,550
possibility is that maybe some kind of

414
00:21:18,540 --> 00:21:15,340
compromise had been reached and the

415
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:18,550
compromise was that information that

416
00:21:22,530 --> 00:21:20,890
would be released to the public that it

417
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:22,540
would be released in such a way that it

418
00:21:27,180 --> 00:21:25,090
would enable possible deniability and

419
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:27,190
not be able to be traced back to its

420
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:29,890
source so that's one theory about

421
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:33,850
mj-12 related material another theory I

422
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:37,090
have was the more than I look at the

423
00:21:42,180 --> 00:21:37,600
so-called

424
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:42,190
a theory that and again this is becoming

425
00:21:47,310 --> 00:21:45,850
a more popular notion in you know and

426
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:47,320
just following the general discussion on

427
00:21:52,620 --> 00:21:50,290
the internet on Twitter is that this

428
00:21:54,780 --> 00:21:52,630
aviary and certain people certain P key

429
00:21:59,580 --> 00:21:54,790
people within the aviary such as help

430
00:22:03,480 --> 00:21:59,590
put off get green maybe Eric Davis John

431
00:22:05,190 --> 00:22:03,490
Alexander its efforts Deborah that they

432
00:22:09,060 --> 00:22:05,200
have moved through several iterations

433
00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:09,070
over the years this aviary was the loose

434
00:22:18,690 --> 00:22:11,710
breed in the 80s and some of these

435
00:22:21,530 --> 00:22:18,700
people migrated to Joe firmage and to

436
00:22:27,330 --> 00:22:21,540
mr. Bigelow's Smiths and mr. big was

437
00:22:29,340 --> 00:22:27,340
bass and now here we are today and some

438
00:22:30,660 --> 00:22:29,350
of these same people that like waited to

439
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:30,670
to the stars Academy

440
00:22:37,020 --> 00:22:34,090
so I'm looking into the possibility that

441
00:22:38,850 --> 00:22:37,030
the mj-12 documents may have originated

442
00:22:40,380 --> 00:22:38,860
somewhere within the aviary not

443
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:40,390
necessarily from Biltmore

444
00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:44,050
so that's another possibility hmm did

445
00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:46,750
you have a speak to Stanton about mj-12

446
00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:51,130
documents Batol oh yes oh yes I was

447
00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:53,710
doing a lot of research at the time on

448
00:23:02,400 --> 00:22:58,090
the Internet mrs. several years ago and

449
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:02,410
I had some pretty pretty pointed kind of

450
00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:05,170
hard questions that I wanted to ask Stan

451
00:23:10,260 --> 00:23:08,080
Friedman and I had the opportunity to

452
00:23:13,470 --> 00:23:10,270
sit down with him at a symposium this is

453
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:13,480
several years ago twice my style down

454
00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:18,960
with him all right talk with him I

455
00:23:25,380 --> 00:23:22,510
demand a man at a at a cocktail party

456
00:23:27,390 --> 00:23:25,390
and we sat down at breakfast and I asked

457
00:23:31,170 --> 00:23:27,400
several very pointed questions that you

458
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:31,180
know and he just tried this father said

459
00:23:33,460 --> 00:23:32,090
he said it

460
00:23:35,890 --> 00:23:33,470
make any difference because the mj-12

461
00:23:39,310 --> 00:23:35,900
documents are real those are the answers

462
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:39,320
that yes yeah that one's pretty familiar

463
00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:41,090
so that's the proprieties mine was right

464
00:23:50,950 --> 00:23:45,760
up see that's right that's fine yeah

465
00:23:52,990 --> 00:23:50,960
okay move on to the Bob Lazar what is

466
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:53,000
your opinion of him now

467
00:23:57,549 --> 00:23:55,250
I've just given my quick opinion for

468
00:23:59,470 --> 00:23:57,559
about 20 years I actually believe Bob

469
00:24:01,720 --> 00:23:59,480
Lazar story I'm afraid

470
00:24:03,940 --> 00:24:01,730
over the last year or so office it'll

471
00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:03,950
started I started sitting on the fence

472
00:24:09,070 --> 00:24:06,049
about it and now I've got on the side

473
00:24:13,029 --> 00:24:09,080
that I don't really believe him how do

474
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:13,039
you feel about that you know I just

475
00:24:18,549 --> 00:24:14,690
don't know what to think really David

476
00:24:22,299 --> 00:24:18,559
because his educational credentials had

477
00:24:23,620 --> 00:24:22,309
not been verified as we all know and you

478
00:24:25,180 --> 00:24:23,630
would think that would be one of the

479
00:24:31,289 --> 00:24:25,190
first things that he would try out

480
00:24:34,570 --> 00:24:31,299
mm-hmm you know to prove his case he

481
00:24:39,310 --> 00:24:34,580
apparently did work at los alamos in

482
00:24:41,950 --> 00:24:39,320
some capacity all right perhaps as a

483
00:24:43,690 --> 00:24:41,960
technician perhaps as an outside

484
00:24:45,370 --> 00:24:43,700
contractor I don't know because I

485
00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:45,380
haven't had a chance you know to

486
00:24:50,169 --> 00:24:47,840
investigate that in any depth I'm just

487
00:24:53,250 --> 00:24:50,179
going by what I'm saying in the public

488
00:24:57,789 --> 00:24:53,260
literature and in the public discussions

489
00:25:01,990 --> 00:24:57,799
whether he was actually in area 51 or or

490
00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:02,000
as poor as they say I I just don't know

491
00:25:08,649 --> 00:25:05,600
but but I will say this is his story has

492
00:25:11,740 --> 00:25:08,659
not changed over the years and he has

493
00:25:14,889 --> 00:25:11,750
seemed to be very reluctant to talk you

494
00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:14,899
know to go public even though and he has

495
00:25:20,380 --> 00:25:18,049
the appearance of people in order to get

496
00:25:22,210 --> 00:25:20,390
him to go public with anything they have

497
00:25:25,450 --> 00:25:22,220
to drag it out of them have to drag him

498
00:25:27,460 --> 00:25:25,460
into it yeah just before he died

499
00:25:30,460 --> 00:25:27,470
actually Stanton Friedman had a meeting

500
00:25:32,830 --> 00:25:30,470
with them with publicity at the other

501
00:25:36,029 --> 00:25:32,840
think it was a televised one and they

502
00:25:39,220 --> 00:25:36,039
seem to think that Bob Lazar was a fraud

503
00:25:41,220 --> 00:25:39,230
well and Eric Davis has said that Bob

504
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:41,230
Lazar is a fraud but here's the

505
00:25:48,140 --> 00:25:45,510
possibility Bob Lazar claims

506
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:48,150
that well he said that he had built a

507
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:50,880
jet car mm-hmm when he was working in

508
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:53,370
Los Alamos and that an article had been

509
00:26:01,100 --> 00:25:55,770
written about that jet car in the Los

510
00:26:04,190 --> 00:26:01,110
Alamos newspaper and that Lazar claims

511
00:26:05,690 --> 00:26:04,200
that he ran into Edward Teller reading

512
00:26:08,810 --> 00:26:05,700
that article and they got into a

513
00:26:12,020 --> 00:26:08,820
conversation and that later on when

514
00:26:14,659 --> 00:26:12,030
Lazar and these are his claims that when

515
00:26:18,980 --> 00:26:14,669
Lazar decided to get back into science

516
00:26:22,270 --> 00:26:18,990
whatever that means that he got in touch

517
00:26:25,070 --> 00:26:22,280
with dr. teller now you would think that

518
00:26:28,419 --> 00:26:25,080
if you were just a Joe Blow off the

519
00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:28,429
street you would not be called by EG&G

520
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:31,710
into an interview to go to work at what

521
00:26:38,860 --> 00:26:34,530
if true has got to be the most

522
00:26:41,810 --> 00:26:38,870
classified program in the world okay but

523
00:26:43,909 --> 00:26:41,820
if you knew Edward Teller and they felt

524
00:26:45,950 --> 00:26:43,919
were teller picked up the phone and said

525
00:26:48,770 --> 00:26:45,960
I've got somebody for you to work there

526
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:48,780
I think you wouldn't have any trouble at

527
00:26:58,970 --> 00:26:51,450
all giving them okay and I will say that

528
00:27:00,980 --> 00:26:58,980
but I don't know all these questions are

529
00:27:02,180 --> 00:27:00,990
I'll publish it around at the moment no

530
00:27:03,500 --> 00:27:02,190
I don't think we're to get the host with

531
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:03,510
twenty of them are weak because though

532
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:06,090
you know that's a I believe Bob Lazar

533
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:08,610
story for about 20 years or so and well

534
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:11,250
for at about 20 years and I'm sort of I

535
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:12,960
saw the film actually a few days ago

536
00:27:18,260 --> 00:27:16,410
that he's got out and it didn't convince

537
00:27:20,180 --> 00:27:18,270
me at all to be honest even though I've

538
00:27:24,830 --> 00:27:20,190
been on the Bob Lazar side of things for

539
00:27:31,130 --> 00:27:24,840
so many years wait to see what we see

540
00:27:33,620 --> 00:27:31,140
what see what materializes I think it

541
00:27:35,690 --> 00:27:33,630
really requires a lot of patience it

542
00:27:39,980 --> 00:27:35,700
just requires a lot of patience because

543
00:27:44,510 --> 00:27:39,990
in all the 70 years since this all began

544
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:44,520
in 1947 you know the modern era we have

545
00:27:51,260 --> 00:27:47,760
never received firm confirmation from

546
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:51,270
authorities in society now we we that

547
00:27:55,220 --> 00:27:53,370
followed the UFO feel like myself and

548
00:27:56,810 --> 00:27:55,230
other people in the field we're quite

549
00:27:59,450 --> 00:27:56,820
sure that something's going on

550
00:28:02,570 --> 00:27:59,460
but we've never received official

551
00:28:04,490 --> 00:28:02,580
confirmation so that leaves us in limbo

552
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:04,500
and all we can do is to have patience

553
00:28:09,710 --> 00:28:08,130
and keep studying keep learning but

554
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:09,720
especially when we get into these

555
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:13,410
documents and leaked information and DoD

556
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:15,690
related stuff it just turns into a

557
00:28:20,090 --> 00:28:17,840
wilderness of mirrors yeah

558
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:20,100
it's not cops in a couple of times it

559
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:22,320
seems to me the release of a lot of

560
00:28:26,090 --> 00:28:24,720
stuff and it's probably old out there

561
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:26,100
but you've got to find it in amongst the

562
00:28:30,290 --> 00:28:27,840
woods something you've got a tree you've

563
00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:30,300
got to find within the woods there's you

564
00:28:33,710 --> 00:28:31,710
know that's the way it seems to me

565
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:33,720
especially with the reports they've

566
00:28:38,690 --> 00:28:36,810
released over here in the UK there's

567
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:38,700
been a deluge of UFO reports being

568
00:28:44,450 --> 00:28:42,090
released and if you go through with you

569
00:28:46,490 --> 00:28:44,460
tens of thousands of pages and you

570
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:46,500
really need to go through well I haven't

571
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:48,330
personally gone through them all but I

572
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:50,610
know people like Nick Pope and that have

573
00:28:56,270 --> 00:28:52,770
gone through much of it and there are

574
00:28:58,880 --> 00:28:56,280
treasures within those papers that do a

575
00:29:00,620 --> 00:28:58,890
new point something that something has

576
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:00,630
happened at some point you know that

577
00:29:04,700 --> 00:29:02,970
there are real genuine reports out there

578
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:04,710
I certainly believe them

579
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:06,960
and I know we're not seen I've seen a

580
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:09,840
UFO myself in 67 so I do know they're

581
00:29:17,450 --> 00:29:13,890
out there if you have your own

582
00:29:24,050 --> 00:29:17,460
experience at all I haven't I have not

583
00:29:26,660 --> 00:29:24,060
and after learning and when I learned in

584
00:29:28,580 --> 00:29:26,670
the nineties about these abductions I

585
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:28,590
really started thinking David I don't

586
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:31,050
want to see oh yeah we know I was heard

587
00:29:35,270 --> 00:29:32,970
of that you know anything I just saw an

588
00:29:37,790 --> 00:29:35,280
orange oval object going across the

589
00:29:38,150 --> 00:29:37,800
night sky pulsating it wasn't a bright

590
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:38,160
light

591
00:29:44,810 --> 00:29:43,170
watching it for a good 15 minutes or so

592
00:29:49,610 --> 00:29:44,820
then it wasn't an aircraft I'm talking

593
00:29:52,190 --> 00:29:49,620
about 1967 or Bolivia was and it was a

594
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:52,200
large oval object you know and I teared

595
00:29:57,140 --> 00:29:54,480
out and got a book I looked for a book

596
00:29:59,720 --> 00:29:57,150
about oval objects and I was amazed to

597
00:30:01,810 --> 00:29:59,730
find that this is a loads of oval

598
00:30:05,630 --> 00:30:01,820
objects seen all over the world actual

599
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:05,640
but and there's no shortage of sightings

600
00:30:09,420 --> 00:30:07,890
in the UK that's for sure yeah an orange

601
00:30:11,220 --> 00:30:09,430
seems to be a pathetic

602
00:30:14,730 --> 00:30:11,230
the color that some of them that appears

603
00:30:18,300 --> 00:30:14,740
to be even if it is quite similar to the

604
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:18,310
curdled whole experience they you know

605
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:21,970
you guys are over there in NATO land and

606
00:30:26,610 --> 00:30:23,440
I wonder if that doesn't have something

607
00:30:30,540 --> 00:30:26,620
to do with it what do you mean what's

608
00:30:33,510 --> 00:30:30,550
her secret weapon yeah I mean that's

609
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:33,520
always a possibility I mean this yeah

610
00:30:39,300 --> 00:30:37,690
yeah he's what this whole object what do

611
00:30:40,890 --> 00:30:39,310
you certainly wasn't a normal heavy

612
00:30:41,820 --> 00:30:40,900
aircraft with there is some sort of a

613
00:30:43,010 --> 00:30:41,830
secret aircraft

614
00:30:53,100 --> 00:30:43,020
I suppose that's always a possibility

615
00:30:55,470 --> 00:30:53,110
you know sure so yeah this bothering me

616
00:30:59,150 --> 00:30:55,480
right now about these latest document

617
00:31:02,160 --> 00:30:59,160
releases the documents in particular the

618
00:31:05,940 --> 00:31:02,170
the Admiral Wilson document and the KITT

619
00:31:08,370 --> 00:31:05,950
cream document is that some people are

620
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:08,380
praying to jump in and immediately say

621
00:31:13,230 --> 00:31:10,450
that that there are most important

622
00:31:15,030 --> 00:31:13,240
documents in UFO history and then other

623
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:15,040
people are jumping in and trying to say

624
00:31:19,290 --> 00:31:16,930
oh they're fake you know they they find

625
00:31:22,770 --> 00:31:19,300
this or that out red flag or this or

626
00:31:26,610 --> 00:31:22,780
that inconsistency and I'd like to see

627
00:31:31,350 --> 00:31:26,620
more of a what I would term a methodical

628
00:31:33,570 --> 00:31:31,360
approach to analyzing these problems for

629
00:31:36,510 --> 00:31:33,580
example you know the first question you

630
00:31:39,740 --> 00:31:36,520
have is provenance but where did the

631
00:31:42,180 --> 00:31:39,750
document originate in an all mmm

632
00:31:44,550 --> 00:31:42,190
secondly there's there's the question of

633
00:31:47,810 --> 00:31:44,560
chain of custody who has had the

634
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:47,820
document how is the how was the item

635
00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:51,370
passed from one party to another now in

636
00:31:56,700 --> 00:31:53,110
in the and in the case of the Admiral

637
00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:56,710
Wilson document the chain custody is

638
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:58,330
very interesting and we don't we don't

639
00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:00,960
have a complete chain of custody yeah

640
00:32:05,580 --> 00:32:03,310
also I think you know we need to be

641
00:32:09,690 --> 00:32:05,590
looking at the timeline you know what

642
00:32:11,580 --> 00:32:09,700
has occurred by whom when and we want to

643
00:32:14,340 --> 00:32:11,590
look at the disposition where where is

644
00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:14,350
the document now does it still exist

645
00:32:18,390 --> 00:32:16,960
has it been destroyed you know is in

646
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:18,400
someone's file so I think these are

647
00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:20,410
questions that we need to be asking and

648
00:32:23,850 --> 00:32:21,710
looking at

649
00:32:25,900 --> 00:32:23,860
and I'd like to see see people

650
00:32:29,290 --> 00:32:25,910
investigating this on an objective

651
00:32:31,390 --> 00:32:29,300
rational basis and then we can summarize

652
00:32:34,810 --> 00:32:31,400
what it is that we know on what it is

653
00:32:38,550 --> 00:32:34,820
that we don't know for example in the

654
00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:38,560
admiral wilson document it's not

655
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:42,110
outlandish to think that the document

656
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:45,170
probably if it's if it's true and it

657
00:32:50,170 --> 00:32:47,330
hasn't been denied by eric davis but

658
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:50,180
that it originated with eric davis he

659
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:52,370
possibly made copies and sent them to

660
00:32:58,150 --> 00:32:55,130
friends of his and knids one of those

661
00:32:59,860 --> 00:32:58,160
people being at gur mitchell a copy of

662
00:33:02,980 --> 00:32:59,870
that document was that in April

663
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:02,990
Mitchell's files someone or some group

664
00:33:09,030 --> 00:33:06,650
we don't know who was able to take

665
00:33:13,420 --> 00:33:09,040
possession of it you're Mitchell's files

666
00:33:16,750 --> 00:33:13,430
now somewhere between there and the

667
00:33:19,690 --> 00:33:16,760
gentleman and in Australia on uh the

668
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:19,700
gentleman in Australia received that

669
00:33:24,990 --> 00:33:22,370
document or documents from some party

670
00:33:27,970 --> 00:33:25,000
that he says was at a space conference

671
00:33:30,460 --> 00:33:27,980
okay and we don't know who the who these

672
00:33:34,390 --> 00:33:30,470
parties are in between so we have a

673
00:33:37,300 --> 00:33:34,400
reasonable idea of a chain of custody on

674
00:33:40,150 --> 00:33:37,310
this because we know that grant Cameron

675
00:33:42,220 --> 00:33:40,160
ended up he says that he got a copy of

676
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:42,230
this document and then it was leaked on

677
00:33:48,850 --> 00:33:43,850
the Internet and we don't know who

678
00:33:51,430 --> 00:33:48,860
leaked it so we have a partial chain of

679
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:51,440
custody on this and it's okay to say

680
00:33:55,540 --> 00:33:53,450
that we know certain things and we don't

681
00:33:57,850 --> 00:33:55,550
know certain things other things and

682
00:34:12,970 --> 00:33:57,860
that those still are subject to

683
00:34:14,980 --> 00:34:12,980
investigation yeah hello welcome to the

684
00:34:18,730 --> 00:34:14,990
paranormal UK radio network we're

685
00:34:21,490 --> 00:34:18,740
listening to Tom Whitmore and we've been

686
00:34:24,930 --> 00:34:21,500
covering the mj-12 documents etc and

687
00:34:29,050 --> 00:34:24,940
just in case you wonder where you were

688
00:34:31,450 --> 00:34:29,060
anyway Tom we I'll be jump straight in

689
00:34:33,590 --> 00:34:31,460
and so you originally became interested

690
00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:33,600
in UFOs but you hadn't actually seen any

691
00:34:38,330 --> 00:34:36,110
do you actually believe in them yourself

692
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:38,340
yes most definitely

693
00:34:42,170 --> 00:34:40,290
so yes you've got you seen enough

694
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:42,180
evidence that makes you believe in them

695
00:34:49,700 --> 00:34:46,650
oh yes most very definitely there I I

696
00:34:52,340 --> 00:34:49,710
can't say for sure where they originate

697
00:34:54,470 --> 00:34:52,350
or what the ultimate nature of it is I

698
00:34:57,380 --> 00:34:54,480
don't know and you know we've all heard

699
00:35:01,700 --> 00:34:57,390
all the theories from extraterrestrial

700
00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:01,710
to interdimensional to offer us harassed

701
00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:02,640
real to you

702
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:05,280
time travelers etc I mean it could be

703
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:09,090
any and all of those could you know yes

704
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:10,320
it could but it must

705
00:35:15,890 --> 00:35:12,930
there's definitely UFO a real UFO

706
00:35:16,510 --> 00:35:15,900
phenomena I'm absolutely convinced of

707
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:16,520
that

708
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:20,160
yeah have you got some sort of a drive

709
00:35:27,530 --> 00:35:22,800
mechanism that keeps you going in your

710
00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:27,540
interest in this yeah I'm saying you

711
00:35:32,210 --> 00:35:30,510
know it's it's an internal thing that

712
00:35:35,990 --> 00:35:32,220
wants you to get the to the truth in

713
00:35:44,060 --> 00:35:36,000
this like yeah a lot many of us try to

714
00:35:45,890 --> 00:35:44,070
do you mean is there some is it the

715
00:35:53,030 --> 00:35:45,900
passion of it or just the interest or

716
00:35:56,420 --> 00:35:53,040
both well I think ultimately people are

717
00:35:59,560 --> 00:35:56,430
interested in the UFO problem in the

718
00:36:06,770 --> 00:35:59,570
phenomenon because it ultimately creates

719
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:06,780
wonder and what can be more wonderful so

720
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:10,800
to speak than to examine the possibility

721
00:36:17,390 --> 00:36:14,930
of this phenomenon originating possibly

722
00:36:20,180 --> 00:36:17,400
extraterrestrial or whatever origin

723
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:20,190
montañas that there's that element of

724
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:23,730
wonder secondly I've been in the UFO

725
00:36:29,150 --> 00:36:26,130
field long enough to know that this is a

726
00:36:34,970 --> 00:36:29,160
long-term problem there are no quick

727
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:34,980
solutions and I and I've developed a

728
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:39,090
sense of patience in this field and I

729
00:36:45,350 --> 00:36:42,240
believe that to be successful in the

730
00:36:47,300 --> 00:36:45,360
long term and studying UFOs consistently

731
00:36:49,850 --> 00:36:47,310
that we must

732
00:36:53,770 --> 00:36:49,860
the tolerance for ambiguity what can be

733
00:36:56,870 --> 00:36:53,780
more ambiguous than the UFO topic okay

734
00:36:59,180 --> 00:36:56,880
thirdly I'm fascinated by the

735
00:37:01,460 --> 00:36:59,190
possibility that that the government

736
00:37:05,390 --> 00:37:01,470
intelligence agencies taken interests in

737
00:37:08,810 --> 00:37:05,400
the UFO groups and we've seen we've seen

738
00:37:11,330 --> 00:37:08,820
evidence of those and if there are

739
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:11,340
counterintelligence activities occurring

740
00:37:17,150 --> 00:37:14,730
in relationship to the UFO groups and

741
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:17,160
UFO individuals I want to learn all I

742
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:20,160
can about it that keeps me going sure

743
00:37:25,010 --> 00:37:21,930
oh no I guess that's how you see your

744
00:37:27,260 --> 00:37:25,020
role in ufology too to tell as many

745
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:27,270
people as you can and write about it and

746
00:37:33,380 --> 00:37:30,890
hope you want to get this book out and

747
00:37:36,980 --> 00:37:33,390
basically get your your your side of

748
00:37:39,230 --> 00:37:36,990
things out and yeah hopefully back up

749
00:37:43,370 --> 00:37:39,240
the you've your beliefs in ufology a lot

750
00:37:45,260 --> 00:37:43,380
really my point yeah well point you I

751
00:37:47,270 --> 00:37:45,270
mean I wanna I want to write is either

752
00:37:49,070 --> 00:37:47,280
gonna be a report or a self-published

753
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:49,080
book or maybe even a commercially

754
00:37:55,970 --> 00:37:51,570
published button if any one Brenna but

755
00:37:58,700 --> 00:37:55,980
the the basic theme is mj-12 a

756
00:38:01,670 --> 00:37:58,710
reappraisal because I think enough time

757
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:01,680
has transpired you know this has been

758
00:38:06,740 --> 00:38:04,890
going on 40 years that we can we can

759
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:06,750
really develop some historical

760
00:38:13,460 --> 00:38:10,370
perspective in this and I think with a

761
00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:13,470
reexamination that the facts of the

762
00:38:19,100 --> 00:38:16,320
people involved of the documents of the

763
00:38:20,930 --> 00:38:19,110
activities that occurred I want to dig

764
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:20,940
into this as far as I can David and

765
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:23,370
hopefully turn up new ground turn up new

766
00:38:28,340 --> 00:38:26,400
material and in all of that I think we

767
00:38:31,430 --> 00:38:28,350
can't have a reappraisal of the mj-12

768
00:38:32,930 --> 00:38:31,440
affair and again like I said I think you

769
00:38:33,170 --> 00:38:32,940
know we'll let the chips fall where they

770
00:38:35,690 --> 00:38:33,180
may

771
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:35,700
sure yes why what you think there's so

772
00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:38,970
many year divides in regarding the

773
00:38:43,730 --> 00:38:41,280
subjects of home UFOs and the

774
00:38:46,580 --> 00:38:43,740
implications for humanity sort of thing

775
00:38:48,650 --> 00:38:46,590
there seems to be a real hard deficient

776
00:38:50,750 --> 00:38:48,660
about people that if you're on a

777
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:50,760
non-believer the non-believer seems to

778
00:38:56,900 --> 00:38:53,610
think that all the UFO believers and

779
00:38:58,250 --> 00:38:56,910
that's basically and the UFO believers

780
00:39:00,050 --> 00:38:58,260
think that all the ones that don't

781
00:39:02,050 --> 00:39:00,060
believe it they think in that's his kind

782
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:02,060
of a pity

783
00:39:08,150 --> 00:39:05,090
well I know it's affected me because

784
00:39:11,690 --> 00:39:08,160
when I when I know that establishment

785
00:39:15,350 --> 00:39:11,700
science won't address the UFO problem

786
00:39:19,490 --> 00:39:15,360
that in itself makes me skeptical of

787
00:39:22,070 --> 00:39:19,500
establishment science yeah now you know

788
00:39:26,420 --> 00:39:22,080
hopefully not going too far with that

789
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:26,430
notion but establishment science is made

790
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:28,530
up of human beings and human beings

791
00:39:33,050 --> 00:39:29,970
aren't perfect and they have their

792
00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:33,060
issues and an establishment science you

793
00:39:38,420 --> 00:39:36,000
have dogma you have doctrine you have

794
00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:38,430
things that you can't question they've

795
00:39:44,990 --> 00:39:42,510
been that they've been asserted to the

796
00:39:47,270 --> 00:39:45,000
point that if you take a different

797
00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:47,280
approach

798
00:39:51,950 --> 00:39:49,250
maybe you don't get tenure of your

799
00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:51,960
university maybe you don't get along

800
00:39:59,000 --> 00:39:56,250
with your with your co-workers maybe

801
00:40:02,360 --> 00:39:59,010
maybe you don't get that promotion maybe

802
00:40:04,850 --> 00:40:02,370
you get fired you know so there are

803
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:04,860
people that fall into line to whatever

804
00:40:11,090 --> 00:40:08,490
the establishment science doctrines and

805
00:40:13,250 --> 00:40:11,100
dogmas are and they don't step out of

806
00:40:16,250 --> 00:40:13,260
line and that's why you have this whole

807
00:40:18,470 --> 00:40:16,260
notion of an invisible college now there

808
00:40:20,690 --> 00:40:18,480
are scientists who are interested in the

809
00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:20,700
UFO problem but they've got a study at

810
00:40:25,070 --> 00:40:23,310
underground so to speak there's an

811
00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:25,080
undergrad and how many scientists I

812
00:40:29,930 --> 00:40:27,510
don't know that I think people in

813
00:40:34,430 --> 00:40:29,940
general are a little more open-minded

814
00:40:36,620 --> 00:40:34,440
than maybe maybe maybe I think because

815
00:40:39,050 --> 00:40:36,630
of the experiences I've had in the UFO

816
00:40:41,770 --> 00:40:39,060
field that if if they're studying it

817
00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:41,780
they're doing it privately and quietly

818
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:45,510
yeah well I think there's a lot of

819
00:40:52,070 --> 00:40:49,850
people that that if they report a UFO

820
00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:52,080
they're being classed as an

821
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:54,960
attention-seeker or a hoaxer you know

822
00:40:59,690 --> 00:40:57,690
and or mentally ill even and I think

823
00:41:01,700 --> 00:40:59,700
that's quote I think a lot of that is

824
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:01,710
actually being sort of pushed aside now

825
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:04,050
on people are actually accepting more

826
00:41:08,570 --> 00:41:06,810
aren't they are believed anyway or they

827
00:41:10,100 --> 00:41:08,580
still I know there are still people out

828
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:10,110
there that think of people that you

829
00:41:14,890 --> 00:41:11,930
believe in UFOs

830
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:14,900
all that but when you think about it I

831
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:17,210
mean with all of those styles that are

832
00:41:21,460 --> 00:41:18,650
out there it's got to be so they've got

833
00:41:22,780 --> 00:41:21,470
the other civilizations out there and

834
00:41:26,110 --> 00:41:22,790
probably as they've used in the past

835
00:41:27,430 --> 00:41:26,120
unreal so tomorrow I think in this note

836
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:27,440
there's no reason why they can't be

837
00:41:36,970 --> 00:41:30,410
coming here or you know or we've got the

838
00:41:41,170 --> 00:41:36,980
interdimensional factor also so it's

839
00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:41,180
getting better you know there there had

840
00:41:49,930 --> 00:41:45,440
been a real effort by authorities to

841
00:41:53,340 --> 00:41:49,940
really clamp down on this airline pilots

842
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:53,350
have been reluctant to report anything

843
00:41:58,480 --> 00:41:56,330
the military people had been reluctant

844
00:42:01,480 --> 00:41:58,490
to report anything it does help your

845
00:42:03,790 --> 00:42:01,490
career I don't know if that's because

846
00:42:05,740 --> 00:42:03,800
the military people don't want to deal

847
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:05,750
with it you know they see it as an

848
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:08,960
extraneous issue that's outside of their

849
00:42:16,690 --> 00:42:12,050
real job which is protecting national

850
00:42:19,870 --> 00:42:16,700
security or if there is some oversight

851
00:42:27,100 --> 00:42:19,880
and director direction you know to to

852
00:42:28,900 --> 00:42:27,110
avoid this this whole subject because

853
00:42:31,410 --> 00:42:28,910
Colonel Hall would this this whole thing

854
00:42:34,060 --> 00:42:31,420
affecting his career in Hindi air force

855
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:34,070
and it was something he never wanted to

856
00:42:38,260 --> 00:42:37,280
come out but it just came out and and he

857
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:38,270
was stabbed with it for the rest of his

858
00:42:50,530 --> 00:42:48,890
life yeah they're probably really don't

859
00:42:52,570 --> 00:42:50,540
want that story coming out he said it's

860
00:42:54,340 --> 00:42:52,580
a no he said to me a couple of times he

861
00:42:58,420 --> 00:42:54,350
said it was one of those things that I'd

862
00:43:01,000 --> 00:42:58,430
have rather if he can come out you know

863
00:43:02,950 --> 00:43:01,010
so what for sure so the disclosure

864
00:43:05,500 --> 00:43:02,960
movement you think we'll ever get real

865
00:43:06,820 --> 00:43:05,510
disclosure real I mean real disclosure I

866
00:43:07,900 --> 00:43:06,830
know that all these things coming out

867
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:07,910
and we're not sure if they're true or

868
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:11,450
not you know the prisoners are coming

869
00:43:13,420 --> 00:43:12,410
out and say right I've got an

870
00:43:16,780 --> 00:43:13,430
announcement to make

871
00:43:19,940 --> 00:43:16,790
we are we are not alone something like

872
00:43:24,529 --> 00:43:19,950
that do you think they'll ever happen I

873
00:43:27,079 --> 00:43:24,539
don't I do not end now and I said this

874
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:27,089
before but the main question is if I

875
00:43:33,259 --> 00:43:30,650
have if there has been one or more

876
00:43:36,589 --> 00:43:33,269
saucers recovered and if there have been

877
00:43:41,089 --> 00:43:36,599
alien bodies if there is anything to

878
00:43:43,609 --> 00:43:41,099
that then I don't think there's going to

879
00:43:46,460 --> 00:43:43,619
be any disclosure real disclosure about

880
00:43:49,490 --> 00:43:46,470
it and the reason why is because it's

881
00:43:53,029 --> 00:43:49,500
been if it is true it's been kept under

882
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:53,039
under wraps for seventy years and there

883
00:43:59,210 --> 00:43:56,160
has been a lot of lying going on and it

884
00:44:02,990 --> 00:43:59,220
was just like if there was if this ever

885
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:03,000
was outed or became public there are

886
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:04,319
some people that were gonna have to

887
00:44:08,210 --> 00:44:06,240
answer some very hard questions and

888
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:08,220
they're gonna be in trouble okay

889
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:11,010
and the if assuming it is true if it is

890
00:44:18,710 --> 00:44:14,130
true the people that are in control of

891
00:44:21,890 --> 00:44:18,720
this information they have no incentive

892
00:44:24,259 --> 00:44:21,900
to disclose it what they had nothing to

893
00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:24,269
gain because all its gonna do is cause

894
00:44:30,769 --> 00:44:28,319
problems for them and that's why I don't

895
00:44:34,190 --> 00:44:30,779
think there's going to be any out now

896
00:44:37,220 --> 00:44:34,200
disclosure now I do think currently just

897
00:44:40,069 --> 00:44:37,230
recently in the last 12 months we've

898
00:44:43,940 --> 00:44:40,079
been in a process of getting what I call

899
00:44:48,859 --> 00:44:43,950
soft confirmation and soft confirmation

900
00:44:51,559 --> 00:44:48,869
is where it has been acceptable to

901
00:44:54,799 --> 00:44:51,569
discuss UFOs publicly by the mainstream

902
00:44:57,740 --> 00:44:54,809
media and even by some of the military

903
00:45:00,440 --> 00:44:57,750
and congressional authorities so there's

904
00:45:03,559 --> 00:45:00,450
there's been there's been an inkling of

905
00:45:06,289 --> 00:45:03,569
some admission that maybe there's

906
00:45:08,390 --> 00:45:06,299
something to the UFO problem okay yeah

907
00:45:10,999 --> 00:45:08,400
but that's that's not what I call hard

908
00:45:12,859 --> 00:45:11,009
confirmation hard confirmation is when

909
00:45:15,140 --> 00:45:12,869
they roll out the b-2 bomber and they

910
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:15,150
ever they have a ceremony and they have

911
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:16,890
speeches and there's no doubt that there

912
00:45:22,279 --> 00:45:19,890
is a b-2 bomber okay and in hard

913
00:45:24,890 --> 00:45:22,289
confirmation would in UFOs would be the

914
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:24,900
Secretary of Defense coming out and

915
00:45:29,690 --> 00:45:26,490
having a press conference and saying

916
00:45:32,470 --> 00:45:29,700
this UFO problem is real we have tapes

917
00:45:34,420 --> 00:45:32,480
we have radar records we have films

918
00:45:38,710 --> 00:45:34,430
you know etc etc etc I don't think

919
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:38,720
that's going to happen and that and for

920
00:45:43,870 --> 00:45:41,450
something for the average person who

921
00:45:45,940 --> 00:45:43,880
doesn't believe in the UFO problem and

922
00:45:49,570 --> 00:45:45,950
doesn't know anything about it it would

923
00:45:52,270 --> 00:45:49,580
be very hard to convince them that there

924
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:52,280
are a real crashed UFOs and there are

925
00:45:56,109 --> 00:45:54,170
real alien bodies it's almost like you'd

926
00:45:59,440 --> 00:45:56,119
have to put them on display in the

927
00:46:02,230 --> 00:45:59,450
Smithsonian or on the Washington DC mall

928
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:02,240
and let that let the masses file past

929
00:46:07,540 --> 00:46:05,210
you know I'll pass the the saucers of

930
00:46:09,460 --> 00:46:07,550
the bodies you know that's the kind of

931
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:09,470
hard confirmation that is really

932
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:12,170
necessary for this UFO problem to really

933
00:46:17,020 --> 00:46:14,690
truly be accepted by the media by

934
00:46:19,060 --> 00:46:17,030
academia by government by military

935
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:19,070
support center now I just don't think

936
00:46:23,020 --> 00:46:20,960
that's gonna happen it is felt to be

937
00:46:24,700 --> 00:46:23,030
some questions being asked about why

938
00:46:31,450 --> 00:46:24,710
have you covered light source over all

939
00:46:34,180 --> 00:46:31,460
these years yeah it certainly and so

940
00:46:36,460 --> 00:46:34,190
what are we left with you know we we

941
00:46:38,710 --> 00:46:36,470
have what I think in in the intelligence

942
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:38,720
community and even in the financial

943
00:46:45,490 --> 00:46:42,170
world that is known as as a mosaic it's

944
00:46:47,980 --> 00:46:45,500
like a it's like a jigsaw puzzle we have

945
00:46:54,220 --> 00:46:47,990
certain pieces that we can be fairly

946
00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:54,230
sure our indicators of reality and we

947
00:46:58,660 --> 00:46:55,730
also have a lot of missing information

948
00:47:01,780 --> 00:46:58,670
so I think as UFO researchers and

949
00:47:05,020 --> 00:47:01,790
investigators we're reduced

950
00:47:07,690 --> 00:47:05,030
we're reduced to having to put together

951
00:47:10,359 --> 00:47:07,700
a mosaic and it requires a lot of

952
00:47:14,470 --> 00:47:10,369
patience and it requires a tolerance for

953
00:47:16,900 --> 00:47:14,480
ambiguity yeah have you idea for anyone

954
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:16,910
what because video in their own UFO

955
00:47:21,790 --> 00:47:18,890
investigations or revert research in the

956
00:47:30,099 --> 00:47:21,800
field what would you say to them anyone

957
00:47:34,420 --> 00:47:30,109
wants to start out well I would give

958
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:34,430
this advice to new investigators you

959
00:47:41,980 --> 00:47:37,490
want and I know I realize I'm plugging

960
00:47:46,099 --> 00:47:41,990
move on here but this is truth about the

961
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:46,109
best most reliable most thorough

962
00:47:51,289 --> 00:47:48,930
most methodical manual on field

963
00:47:55,009 --> 00:47:51,299
investigation is the MUFON field

964
00:47:58,190 --> 00:47:55,019
investigators manual okay now like I've

965
00:48:02,059 --> 00:47:58,200
got a copy of it here in my house it is

966
00:48:04,039 --> 00:48:02,069
excellent so I would advise and this has

967
00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:04,049
been put together David over many years

968
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:07,440
and Yvonne's been it's fifty years so we

969
00:48:12,769 --> 00:48:09,690
know we do know a thing or two about UFO

970
00:48:16,039 --> 00:48:12,779
investigation and I would advise anyone

971
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:16,049
that wants to be an investigator to join

972
00:48:22,309 --> 00:48:20,249
move on and get a copy the of the field

973
00:48:24,380 --> 00:48:22,319
investigators manual and pass the exam

974
00:48:26,479 --> 00:48:24,390
now you don't have to do it that way you

975
00:48:28,729 --> 00:48:26,489
can go to the library or you can go to

976
00:48:32,180 --> 00:48:28,739
Amazon or go on the internet and there

977
00:48:33,769 --> 00:48:32,190
are books on UFO investigations on field

978
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:33,779
investigations and you can put together

979
00:48:38,630 --> 00:48:36,690
your own little program now there there

980
00:48:41,839 --> 00:48:38,640
are two ways to go about it you can you

981
00:48:43,849 --> 00:48:41,849
can join move on and get into the MUFON

982
00:48:47,089 --> 00:48:43,859
Network and there are local groups

983
00:48:48,859 --> 00:48:47,099
they're called state sections and we

984
00:48:52,729 --> 00:48:48,869
have state directors and you can get

985
00:48:55,579 --> 00:48:52,739
into the MUFON system and hopefully be

986
00:48:58,009 --> 00:48:55,589
assigned cases and start doing cases

987
00:48:59,870 --> 00:48:58,019
that way the other way to do it is like

988
00:49:02,470 --> 00:48:59,880
I said go to the library or get books

989
00:49:06,460 --> 00:49:02,480
from Amazon and study field investigator

990
00:49:08,839 --> 00:49:06,470
training and then become start

991
00:49:09,710 --> 00:49:08,849
investigating sightings and build your

992
00:49:13,130 --> 00:49:09,720
own case file

993
00:49:14,749 --> 00:49:13,140
privately ok Jordan now I would advise

994
00:49:16,579 --> 00:49:14,759
anyone getting into field an

995
00:49:17,749 --> 00:49:16,589
investigation to not spend a lot of

996
00:49:20,359 --> 00:49:17,759
money on equipment

997
00:49:22,130 --> 00:49:20,369
you know like cameras and Geiger

998
00:49:24,910 --> 00:49:22,140
counters and all this stuff

999
00:49:29,660 --> 00:49:24,920
the reason why I say that is is because

1000
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:29,670
and and here's a truism in the UFO field

1001
00:49:35,029 --> 00:49:32,730
investigation statement the vast vast

1002
00:49:36,799 --> 00:49:35,039
majority of information that you're

1003
00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:36,809
going to get in conducting field

1004
00:49:42,259 --> 00:49:39,359
investigations is witness testimony or

1005
00:49:44,599 --> 00:49:42,269
you you will get very little physical

1006
00:49:46,940 --> 00:49:44,609
evidence now I'm not saying you will

1007
00:49:48,170 --> 00:49:46,950
never get any I mean it's possible you

1008
00:49:49,910 --> 00:49:48,180
know somebody could have something

1009
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:49,920
happen and and all sudden you have

1010
00:49:55,279 --> 00:49:52,650
physical evidence and that's fine okay

1011
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:55,289
but in the vast majority of cases all

1012
00:49:59,470 --> 00:49:57,930
you have is witness testimony so you

1013
00:50:05,120 --> 00:49:59,480
want to develop skill

1014
00:50:07,279 --> 00:50:05,130
in interviewing the witness and in my

1015
00:50:10,839 --> 00:50:07,289
humble opinion the most important thing

1016
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:10,849
to do in interviewing the witness is

1017
00:50:16,309 --> 00:50:13,650
asking the right kinds of questions and

1018
00:50:19,940 --> 00:50:16,319
sitting back and listening and let the

1019
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:19,950
witness talk okay without me without

1020
00:50:26,210 --> 00:50:23,970
providing leading questions etc etc and

1021
00:50:30,279 --> 00:50:26,220
in interviewing the witness and then

1022
00:50:35,539 --> 00:50:32,809
David in this day of in this day and age

1023
00:50:37,250 --> 00:50:35,549
if everyone's got mobile phones even now

1024
00:50:38,599 --> 00:50:37,260
we're not sure what we're looking at on

1025
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:38,609
the Internet are we though with the use

1026
00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:41,250
of UFOs but is that true or is it not

1027
00:50:47,299 --> 00:50:44,730
true you know there's so many fakes out

1028
00:50:48,710 --> 00:50:47,309
there that you can't rely on any films

1029
00:50:50,839 --> 00:50:48,720
will teach that you might be shown I

1030
00:50:52,519 --> 00:50:50,849
think that's why I think that's the

1031
00:50:54,109 --> 00:50:52,529
important factor that so these to be

1032
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:54,119
pointed out so you're important going

1033
00:50:59,269 --> 00:50:55,770
out there that there's a lot of fakes

1034
00:51:01,819 --> 00:50:59,279
out there there's a lot of fakes and you

1035
00:51:04,609 --> 00:51:01,829
can run your own little tax tests next

1036
00:51:06,470 --> 00:51:04,619
time you see a jet airplane flying by

1037
00:51:09,650 --> 00:51:06,480
and I'll stay in the landing pattern

1038
00:51:11,599 --> 00:51:09,660
that's fairly far away take out your

1039
00:51:13,490 --> 00:51:11,609
phone and take a picture and then look

1040
00:51:16,339 --> 00:51:13,500
at it later and see how much you know

1041
00:51:18,650 --> 00:51:16,349
how clear does the plane look to you can

1042
00:51:20,930 --> 00:51:18,660
you clearly identify it as an airplane

1043
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:20,940
I beg you and a lot of instances that

1044
00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:23,490
you'd have a hard time even identifying

1045
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:26,000
it as an airplane much less the c200

1046
00:51:31,730 --> 00:51:28,650
coffee house boats don't you that you

1047
00:51:34,789 --> 00:51:31,740
know even like with these sometimes if

1048
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:34,799
they're in flight and you know people

1049
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:36,210
say well there are all these cellphones

1050
00:51:40,220 --> 00:51:37,890
you know why doesn't somebody have a

1051
00:51:42,019 --> 00:51:40,230
good photograph of you but I mean that's

1052
00:51:45,170 --> 00:51:42,029
true there are a lot of cell phones but

1053
00:51:48,049 --> 00:51:45,180
you know like like I'll ride my bike on

1054
00:51:49,970 --> 00:51:48,059
these greenways these parks in town and

1055
00:51:52,970 --> 00:51:49,980
there will be deer or there will be

1056
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:52,980
Birds etc and I'll pull out my phone by

1057
00:52:00,710 --> 00:51:54,690
the time I get my phone at night I'm

1058
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:00,720
ready to press the button but that's the

1059
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:02,730
way I mean those are even worse and

1060
00:52:09,079 --> 00:52:05,010
that's that's a big problem David

1061
00:52:10,790 --> 00:52:09,089
because people say well there's not

1062
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:10,800
enough scientific investigator

1063
00:52:15,290 --> 00:52:13,530
being done in the UFO field but there's

1064
00:52:17,570 --> 00:52:15,300
a real problem because you don't know

1065
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:17,580
when you're gonna see UFO you don't know

1066
00:52:22,250 --> 00:52:20,250
where you're gonna see if UFO you don't

1067
00:52:25,250 --> 00:52:22,260
know under what circumstances you're

1068
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:25,260
going to see it UFO I mean in order to

1069
00:52:29,930 --> 00:52:28,530
even start to do science for one thing

1070
00:52:32,060 --> 00:52:29,940
you have to have something you can

1071
00:52:34,430 --> 00:52:32,070
measure and secondly you have to have

1072
00:52:36,350 --> 00:52:34,440
some control of the conditions over

1073
00:52:38,420 --> 00:52:36,360
which you can study it and neither of

1074
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:38,430
those conditions exists in the UFO

1075
00:52:41,660 --> 00:52:39,450
problem exactly

1076
00:52:44,090 --> 00:52:41,670
yeah what are your feelings on the

1077
00:52:49,660 --> 00:52:44,100
abductees yeah like the Travis Walton

1078
00:52:58,540 --> 00:52:55,420
yeah Travis Walton case does not fit the

1079
00:53:02,060 --> 00:52:58,550
kind of standard mold of the UFO

1080
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:02,070
abduction scenario but the Travis Walton

1081
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:05,850
case is fascinating and think the things

1082
00:53:13,700 --> 00:53:08,610
that occurred and have been extremely

1083
00:53:16,370 --> 00:53:13,710
interesting I think I I believe has had

1084
00:53:19,340 --> 00:53:16,380
a profound effect on Travis Waltons life

1085
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:19,350
and to this day he's still he's still

1086
00:53:25,370 --> 00:53:22,490
telling that story I don't have any

1087
00:53:27,410 --> 00:53:25,380
trouble believing you know even though

1088
00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:27,420
again you know do we ever really know

1089
00:53:33,820 --> 00:53:29,730
whether something actually happened or

1090
00:53:37,850 --> 00:53:33,830
is true now with the UFO abductions

1091
00:53:40,970 --> 00:53:37,860
there have been so many reports and so

1092
00:53:42,890 --> 00:53:40,980
many claims by individuals and their

1093
00:53:45,710 --> 00:53:42,900
lives have been affected they've been

1094
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:45,720
affected psychologically and they've

1095
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:47,850
been affected physically there's been so

1096
00:53:51,950 --> 00:53:49,410
much of that that I don't think you

1097
00:53:56,540 --> 00:53:51,960
could write off the UFO abduction

1098
00:53:58,610 --> 00:53:56,550
problem and that now there is there are

1099
00:54:01,600 --> 00:53:58,620
some claims there are some notions that

1100
00:54:04,870 --> 00:54:01,610
maybe there's some kind of nefarious

1101
00:54:07,250 --> 00:54:04,880
military government mind-control

1102
00:54:13,100 --> 00:54:07,260
activities going on you know it is

1103
00:54:15,350 --> 00:54:13,110
certainly a possibility but overall I'm

1104
00:54:18,050 --> 00:54:15,360
convinced that that some kind of

1105
00:54:20,150 --> 00:54:18,060
abduction phenomenon is occurring surely

1106
00:54:21,799 --> 00:54:20,160
because merely because of the sheer

1107
00:54:24,469 --> 00:54:21,809
number of reports that

1108
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:24,479
sure yeah what about I mean I actually

1109
00:54:27,589 --> 00:54:26,249
believe her and Travis Walton story I've

1110
00:54:29,660 --> 00:54:27,599
met him a couple of times and I think

1111
00:54:33,289 --> 00:54:29,670
he's very convincing is that is a

1112
00:54:34,849 --> 00:54:33,299
absolute gentleman and I just don't see

1113
00:54:39,890 --> 00:54:34,859
him as a lawyer you know it just has to

1114
00:54:41,870 --> 00:54:39,900
come over as a lawyer we could all be

1115
00:54:45,650 --> 00:54:41,880
open to be taken Ino no I've been taking

1116
00:54:47,359 --> 00:54:45,660
him put a few times but personally I'll

1117
00:54:49,279 --> 00:54:47,369
believe him anyway I mean the fact that

1118
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:49,289
he went missing for four days who's one

1119
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:50,640
of the suspects is I mean where would he

1120
00:54:55,839 --> 00:54:53,130
have gone to full-face you know and and

1121
00:54:59,479 --> 00:54:55,849
these friends were accused of murder so

1122
00:55:03,829 --> 00:54:59,489
well and and you know your quote-unquote

1123
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:03,839
typical abductee experiences something

1124
00:55:09,709 --> 00:55:06,930
that is developed into occurring at

1125
00:55:13,189 --> 00:55:09,719
night ain't on whatever happens you know

1126
00:55:16,189 --> 00:55:13,199
the person if they ever left their

1127
00:55:18,349 --> 00:55:16,199
bedroom you know they're returned that

1128
00:55:20,989 --> 00:55:18,359
same night and you know they wake up

1129
00:55:24,559 --> 00:55:20,999
with with strange sensations and so on

1130
00:55:27,799 --> 00:55:24,569
so but in Travis Waltons case assuming

1131
00:55:30,410 --> 00:55:27,809
that that the case that's been recounted

1132
00:55:32,479 --> 00:55:30,420
is is true as told he was physically

1133
00:55:35,630 --> 00:55:32,489
missing for that time that for that time

1134
00:55:37,370 --> 00:55:35,640
period that doesn't fit the mold and but

1135
00:55:40,370 --> 00:55:37,380
at the same time it's extremely

1136
00:55:42,620 --> 00:55:40,380
interesting and especially with his

1137
00:55:44,630 --> 00:55:42,630
recounting being in some kind of

1138
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:44,640
underground facility that's extremely

1139
00:55:49,009 --> 00:55:47,130
interesting yeah I think he theory is

1140
00:55:50,419 --> 00:55:49,019
that they may well have been trying to

1141
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:50,429
save his life because he got too close

1142
00:55:55,849 --> 00:55:52,249
to the craft and it made weather firm

1143
00:55:57,890 --> 00:55:55,859
affected him in some way you know well

1144
00:56:00,769 --> 00:55:57,900
and that could explain why his story

1145
00:56:05,359 --> 00:56:00,779
doesn't really fit the average you know

1146
00:56:08,829 --> 00:56:05,369
the average narrative hmm yeah what

1147
00:56:13,370 --> 00:56:08,839
about if you hear people with implants

1148
00:56:16,249 --> 00:56:13,380
what's your opinion of that well again

1149
00:56:20,209 --> 00:56:16,259
it's just report after report after

1150
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:20,219
report and it's frustrating because I

1151
00:56:26,809 --> 00:56:22,729
don't know if there have ever actually

1152
00:56:28,939 --> 00:56:26,819
been more than just one or two implants

1153
00:56:31,519 --> 00:56:28,949
that have actually been retrieved and

1154
00:56:32,550 --> 00:56:31,529
analyzed I don't know if many cases

1155
00:56:36,300 --> 00:56:32,560
where they have been

1156
00:56:38,100 --> 00:56:36,310
so that's that's a that's a concern but

1157
00:56:40,170 --> 00:56:38,110
at the same time I you know you hear

1158
00:56:42,750 --> 00:56:40,180
these stories of the implants physically

1159
00:56:47,780 --> 00:56:42,760
moving you know when people try to

1160
00:56:52,020 --> 00:56:47,790
remove them there are these cases of the

1161
00:56:54,420 --> 00:56:52,030
implanted pregnancy syndrome and then

1162
00:56:57,930 --> 00:56:54,430
the fetus goes away and the doctor just

1163
00:57:01,500 --> 00:56:57,940
shrug those shoulders you know women

1164
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:01,510
women reporting these these pregnancies

1165
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:03,490
to doctors than the doctors not believe

1166
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:05,650
him because it doesn't fit their their

1167
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:10,330
paradigm so they're there in terms of

1168
00:57:15,990 --> 00:57:12,730
getting to any real facts about it it's

1169
00:57:20,820 --> 00:57:16,000
a very problematic for us

1170
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:20,830
civilian amateur type investigators but

1171
00:57:25,350 --> 00:57:22,450
there have been just far too many

1172
00:57:28,380 --> 00:57:25,360
reports of implants and suspected

1173
00:57:30,540 --> 00:57:28,390
implants for it to just be ignored yeah

1174
00:57:33,330 --> 00:57:30,550
and you don't think to find that most

1175
00:57:35,130 --> 00:57:33,340
people say they've got implants or they

1176
00:57:36,660 --> 00:57:35,140
think they're going plants don't want

1177
00:57:38,970 --> 00:57:36,670
the remove do they because I think he

1178
00:57:43,650 --> 00:57:38,980
may will affect something to do with

1179
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:43,660
their own physical body yeah I think I

1180
00:57:46,350 --> 00:57:44,890
don't actually know a couple of people

1181
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:46,360
that say they've got implants and I

1182
00:57:52,140 --> 00:57:49,930
don't disbelieve them in fact so the

1183
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:52,150
friend of one it was just telling me the

1184
00:57:56,610 --> 00:57:54,850
other day for the Kinsella is actually

1185
00:58:00,090 --> 00:57:56,620
had it medically examined and actually

1186
00:58:01,050 --> 00:58:00,100
the doctor said if you've been abducted

1187
00:58:02,940 --> 00:58:01,060
by aliens

1188
00:58:04,710 --> 00:58:02,950
because it was actually behind his ear

1189
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:04,720
and it's actually got like a crystal or

1190
00:58:12,210 --> 00:58:09,330
and stuff on it so it's pretty weird

1191
00:58:15,150 --> 00:58:12,220
yeah yeah it's weird and I think some

1192
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:15,160
people want them removed and maybe some

1193
00:58:24,630 --> 00:58:16,810
others don't maybe they think it's doing

1194
00:58:26,250 --> 00:58:24,640
them good have you got so how many radio

1195
00:58:27,870 --> 00:58:26,260
shows have you done so far in the state

1196
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:27,880
she's done quite a few recently I

1197
00:58:34,740 --> 00:58:32,010
believe in you well there's one radio

1198
00:58:38,190 --> 00:58:34,750
program I've been on three times since

1199
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:38,200
the beginning of the year and I've also

1200
00:58:45,170 --> 00:58:42,730
done let's see three others so I think

1201
00:58:48,180 --> 00:58:45,180
this is this will be

1202
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:48,190
c34 this may be the fifth one that I've

1203
00:58:52,380 --> 00:58:50,610
been on this shoe

1204
00:58:56,940 --> 00:58:52,390
enjoying it immensely

1205
00:58:58,830 --> 00:58:56,950
I appreciate this be great actual fact

1206
00:59:00,840 --> 00:58:58,840
what I'll do a little circuit and I'll

1207
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:00,850
put links to those other shows on so

1208
00:59:05,460 --> 00:59:03,010
I've got a the Paramore paranormal

1209
00:59:07,650 --> 00:59:05,470
dimensions page on Facebook if anyone

1210
00:59:12,900 --> 00:59:07,660
was to come and find it I'll put some

1211
00:59:17,430 --> 00:59:12,910
links on there so Tom's shows and

1212
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:17,440
interviews he's done and if you want to

1213
00:59:21,540 --> 00:59:19,210
send me anything tom that might be of

1214
00:59:23,820 --> 00:59:21,550
interest I can put on the pace in most

1215
00:59:25,170 --> 00:59:23,830
welcome if you add your book I could put

1216
00:59:26,910 --> 00:59:25,180
you could emphasize your book for you

1217
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:26,920
but it's not out yet so look I'll do

1218
00:59:33,870 --> 00:59:31,810
that for you quite there yet so if

1219
00:59:35,250 --> 00:59:33,880
you've got any papers or notes and

1220
00:59:39,510 --> 00:59:35,260
things you'd like me to put up I can do

1221
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:39,520
that okay okay thank you very much

1222
00:59:46,470 --> 00:59:42,250
but I've been assembled the links to all

1223
00:59:48,060 --> 00:59:46,480
those anyway so I'll send them great

1224
00:59:50,130 --> 00:59:48,070
talking to you I think we have to warn

1225
00:59:51,630 --> 00:59:50,140
you out there because I know they're a

1226
00:59:53,910 --> 00:59:51,640
bit more flexible there with this show

1227
00:59:56,340 --> 00:59:53,920
but there's still when I make it to run

1228
00:59:58,650 --> 00:59:56,350
about an hour well we better do it under

1229
01:00:00,570 --> 00:59:58,660
an hour before but we're sort of just a

1230
01:00:03,150 --> 01:00:00,580
little bit more flexible now because it

1231
01:00:05,490 --> 01:00:03,160
goes out in a different format so but

1232
01:00:07,770 --> 01:00:05,500
anyway Tom okay fantastic talking to you

1233
01:00:11,070 --> 01:00:07,780
and Debbie get keep in touch you know

1234
01:00:13,980 --> 01:00:11,080
where I am now and the I certainly will

1235
01:00:15,060 --> 01:00:13,990
be getting back to you and fold out here

1236
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:15,070
you get it on there everything because I

1237
01:00:21,060 --> 01:00:16,810
understand you're moving in a moment or

1238
01:00:23,220 --> 01:00:21,070
trying to move yes sir yes sir I'm gonna

1239
01:00:24,930 --> 01:00:23,230
my intention is to move to Washington DC

1240
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:24,940
so that I can do research at the

1241
01:00:36,540 --> 01:00:26,770
National Archives will you be living

1242
01:00:41,700 --> 01:00:36,550
near to where he goes into Washington DC

1243
01:00:43,530 --> 01:00:41,710
quite often okay great hey say goodbye

1244
01:00:46,350 --> 01:00:43,540
to you now and thank you for coming on

1245
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:46,360
the show and anyone out there thank you

1246
01:00:49,830 --> 01:00:47,770
for listening and you've been listening

1247
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:49,840
to the paranormal UK radio network and

1248
01:00:53,730 --> 01:00:51,730
paranormal dimensions and aren't baby

1249
01:00:57,140 --> 01:00:53,740
John game good boy anchor boy Tom thank

1250
01:00:58,920 --> 01:00:57,150
you for coming on thank you

1251
01:01:00,539 --> 01:00:58,930
Colonel Charles hole is

1252
01:01:04,829 --> 01:01:00,549
Tony's the Woodbridge on the 8th of

1253
01:01:07,230 --> 01:01:04,839
September 2019 it's a Sunday tickets for

1254
01:01:09,269 --> 01:01:07,240
20 pounds for an all-day UFO event with

1255
01:01:12,569 --> 01:01:09,279
other great speakers if you'd like

1256
01:01:15,420 --> 01:01:12,579
tickets please get in touch with me this

1257
01:01:20,670 --> 01:01:15,430
is my email address it's David Young to

1258
01:01:23,339 --> 01:01:20,680
QN at yahoo co uk it's going to be a

1259
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:23,349
great event and there's quite there's a

1260
01:01:27,299 --> 01:01:25,210
few tickets left but they are going

1261
01:01:33,860 --> 01:01:27,309
quickly so you need to act fast

1262
01:02:25,970 --> 01:02:21,650
[Music]

1263
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:25,980
paranormal dimensions is a regular